Posts by Doug Mason

12

The story of two Creation stories

by Doug Mason in

the first two chapters of genesis provide two very different accounts of creation.. .

firstly, they are contradictory.

the sequence of genesis 1:1 2:4a is plants, animals, then man and woman, whereas the sequence of genesis 2:4b 25 is man, plants, animals, then woman.

Doug Mason

Bluegrass,

I do not have the space here to put the reasoning behind the positions I put; so I suggest that you come back to me after you have read the book I referred to. It is inexpensive and very easy to read.

It has long been agreed that these two accounts of Creation are separate and independent. The Elohist story begins (NIV): "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth" and at Genesis 2:4a ends the story in similar fashion. The Yahwist story however begins the other way around at verse 4b: "When the LORD God made the earth and the heavens". The author of Genesis 1 was so determined not to copy the story that sat in front of him/her that the sequence has been reversed.

I suggest that we should applaud the literary skill of Ezra when he combined these accounts in such a way that some think that chapter 2 is a comment on chapter 1. His great skill is further exemplified in the two Flood accounts that he weaved together to produce an apparently single record of the Flood.

So I suggest that you put your assumptions aside, without concern at the potential outcome of your genuine investigation, and make your own study and come to your own genuinely held beliefs.

Someone had to write these stories, but they were not there to record what happened or what was said. Also, remember how those people used history in a way so that it influenced their own community. They did not write objectively. Their records of history were theological documents.

All the best for your study,

Doug

12

The story of two Creation stories

by Doug Mason in

the first two chapters of genesis provide two very different accounts of creation.. .

firstly, they are contradictory.

the sequence of genesis 1:1 2:4a is plants, animals, then man and woman, whereas the sequence of genesis 2:4b 25 is man, plants, animals, then woman.

Doug Mason

The first two chapters of Genesis provide two very different accounts of Creation.

Firstly, they are contradictory. The sequence of Genesis 1:1 – 2:4a is plants, animals, then man and woman, whereas the sequence of Genesis 2:4b – 25 is man, plants, animals, then woman. S econdly, in the account at Genesis 1 the name of God is “Elohim” (35 times), whereas in the second account the word “God” never appears, but rather “Yahweh” is used (11 times).

The Yahweh Creation story (Genesis 2) was written first, probably by a scribe (male or female) of the royal court of Judah. It was written before the destruction of Israel, likely following the start of the reign of Jehoram. Throughout the first four books of Scripture, when narrating, this writer only uses “Yahweh”, never “Elohim” (God).

The Elohim Creation story (Genesis 1) was written after the destruction of Israel, likely by a priest during the time of King Hezekiah. This priest did not use “Yahweh” in his writings until that name is revealed to Moses at the burning bush. This priest was aware of the existing Yahweh Creation Story when he wrote his very different account.

Each Story has its own, different objective. The structure of the Elohim account (Genesis 1) with its parallel days (1 and 4, 2 and 5, 3 and 6) culminates in the Sabbath. This is clearly the focus of the message taught by that priest. The structure of the Yahweh account (Genesis 2) shows that its focus is marriage. The stories were vehicles employed by each writer to influence behaviour in their own community.

Some time following the end of the Babylonian Captivity, a priest, likely Ezra, combined these accounts. As he did this, he inserted a lot of his own material as well as incorporating Deuteronomy, which was probably the work of Jeremiah and/or his scribe Baruch.

(Major reference: “Who Wrote the Bible?” by Richard Elliott Friedman. – I highly recommend it; it reads like a well-written detective story.)

Doug

6

What is the book she is singing from?

by Doug Mason in

sorry for such a mundane question, but there are many things i'm not into.. there is a picture on page 35 of the book, "what does the bible really teach".

don't worry, i'm on top of the feeble rationale.

i guess the book will be good in the recycling.. anyway, in this picture, the girl at the front is holding a book open.

Doug Mason

Sorry for such a mundane question, but there are many things I'm not into.

There is a picture on page 35 of the book, "What Does the Bible Really Teach". Don't worry, I'm on top of the feeble rationale. I guess the book will be good in the recycling.

Anyway, in this picture, the girl at the front is holding a book open. Is this a generic book or a specific WT publication she is holding? Is it their Song Book?

It's interesting how they made this girl the focus, particularly with her eyes.

Do I see a face in the pattern of the flowers, or am I going gaga in my old age? Probably am, anyway. Why does that guy in the middle have his finger pointing? Must stop this.

Doug

16

God of Abraham vs God of Moses (and other gods)

by cameo-d in

many people say that the bible has contradictions.

many find that god seems to be inconsistent in his dictates, and even unjust acording to their own sense of fairness which comes from conscience.. could it be that these contradictions arise because people believe that the bible portrays a one singular true god?

if this were so then there is certainly evidence to be found that this god is neurotic and has a terrible case of ocd, what with all the rituals of "do this three times, then turn toward the east, etc.".

Doug Mason

A most excellent book that throws light on the overall scene is:

"Who Wrote The Bible?", Richard Elliott Friedman, HarperCollins

Doug

6

Selections from books at the time of William Miller

by Doug Mason in

throughout the 19th century, people excitedly believed in the imminent physical return to earth of jesus christ.

each advent group proposed its date for that promised event, and each was intensely disappointed when its selected date passed by without the anticipated event taking place.. i have collected pages from books written at the time of the 19th century date-setting predictor, william miller.

this collection is available at:.

Doug Mason

lepermessiah,

When you search Google Books for these titles, you will be able to download the complete books (apart from the SDA book by Nichol, but it can be purchased - it is however coloured by the bias of the author's SDA prejudices).

Doug

6

Selections from books at the time of William Miller

by Doug Mason in

throughout the 19th century, people excitedly believed in the imminent physical return to earth of jesus christ.

each advent group proposed its date for that promised event, and each was intensely disappointed when its selected date passed by without the anticipated event taking place.. i have collected pages from books written at the time of the 19th century date-setting predictor, william miller.

this collection is available at:.

Doug Mason

frankiespeakin,

Sorry, I did not realise that the link did not work with my post. Thanks for fixing that problem.

Is there some other way I can get it to you? Maybe if you pm me your email address, I could split it into two or three files for you. Or if you are on dialup, I could put it on a CD for you.

Doug

4

A Miracle in Stone, Seiss ?

by Doug Mason in

is it possible to download the book, "a miracle in stone, or the great pyramid of egypt" by joseph e. seiss (1877)?.

i have the .ipa version, but i need to see the original diagrams and pagination.. doug.

Doug Mason

bereanbiblestudent,

Sorry about the delay in getting back here, but as you will see from my latest post, I have had my nose to the keybaord.

Thanks for the pm.

Doug

14

I don't get this! Does anyone?

by wannabe in

i thought that jehovah had his worshippers on this earth today!.

why does the prophecy of zephania make it look there'll be no survivors ar armageddon?

doesn't that sound very strange to anyone?

Doug Mason

Just shows you, doesn't it!

When was Zephaniah written? At the time of Josiah, between Isaiah and Jeremiah.

What lies at the heart of his message? The contemporary state of Jerusalem and its fate.

What was his time frame? Look at Zephaniah 1:14 - he saw the LORD's jusgment as being NEAR - in his own time. He was warning Judah and Jerusalem, a theme picked up by other prophets, including Jeremiah.

Go back and read the whole book again.

Doug

6

Selections from books at the time of William Miller

by Doug Mason in

throughout the 19th century, people excitedly believed in the imminent physical return to earth of jesus christ.

each advent group proposed its date for that promised event, and each was intensely disappointed when its selected date passed by without the anticipated event taking place.. i have collected pages from books written at the time of the 19th century date-setting predictor, william miller.

this collection is available at:.

Doug Mason

Throughout the 19th Century, people excitedly believed in the imminent physical return to Earth of Jesus Christ. Each Advent group proposed its date for that Promised Event, and each was intensely disappointed when its selected date passed by without the anticipated event taking place.

I have collected pages from books written at the time of the 19th century date-setting predictor, William Miller. This collection is available at:

http://www.jwstudies.com/William_Miller__selections_from_contemporary_books.pdf

These pages come from books by Miller and his supporters and from books of those who vehemently opposed him.

Miller stands in a long line of people who made the same mistake of setting dates. I hope these pages illustrate the folly of pursuing the rationale Miller employed, such as using contemporary events to interpret the Bible, as well as the folly of setting dates for activities of the Divine.

This material conveys the sense of anxiety and urgency generated by those date-setting Adventists and the corresponding urgency displayed by those who did not hold to their views.

Doug

37

What did Jesus mean by "this generation"?

by Doug Mason in

by looking at every occasion that jesus used the expression "this generation", it is possible to work out what he meant.. i have listed these occasions, along with some questions, at:.

http://www.jwstudies.com/this_generation.pdf.

i am interested to know what you think.. doug.

Doug Mason

Wannabee,

If I am able to correctly untangle what you are trying to say, I believe I can see the words and sentiments of CTR as he argued that Christ's parousia had taken place in 1874, that they were living in the Last Harvest Period of 40 years, during which there would be an unprecedented Time of Trouble, and which would usher in an unprecedented time of peace in 1914 under the auspices of the Zionists, with the church having been glorified some years earlier.

Go back to your basic fundamentals and reason whether they are soundly based. Prove that Revelation had a fulfillment beyond the seven churches that the epistle was written to. Each group who wrote their Scriptures was writing to their own people in their own time, using their own methods of communication. The writers of Revelation had to use symbolism that hid messages from their Roman overlords. Prove that Daniel was not written 400 years after the Babylonian Exile, to explain their own Jewish oppression (200 years before the Christian Era).

The writers of the "New Testament" tried to make sense of the person they had encountered, whom they had expected was going to free them from the tyranny of Roman oppression. When he was killed by the Romans, they combed desparately through their Hebrew Scriptures seeking an explanation and over time they used their Jewish writings to rationalise their Great Disappointment. These writers were therefore steeped in the Jewish tradition, using Jewish midrashic thinking, and they produced a Jewish document, the Christian Greek Scriptures. So read it all through Jewish eyes. Then you might have a different view of the expression "Last Days".

As they worked through their position, they realised that God is God not only of the Jews, but that in his sight there is no such thing as a Jew or a Greek, a Hebrew or a Gentile, a male or a female. They realised that God forgives anyone on the basis that they have faith in him, and since this is a gift, it is available to any person of any faith. If I may extrapolate, this means the Hindu, Muslim and Aborigine. To think otherwise is to have a small and petulant god.

These are my basic fundamentals. Salvation is not earned through correct eschatology, chronology, dating systems, doctrinal precision, nor apocalyptic reasoning. These things are used by people to lord it over others and to control them. Jesus is said to have come to make us free.

Doug